Ignacio Torres: "The grouting on the middle avenue is finished."

-Javier Milei came to power as an outsider. Did you too?

In Chubut, the phenomenon was entirely outsider. Here, as in many provinces, there's a lineage of the oldest parties. It's very difficult to get into politics if you don't have relatives who were there before, or without sponsorship. I didn't have any. In fact, I only met Mauricio Macri after 2019. I come from a private-sector family, nothing to do with politics. Although I had been a deputy and senator, I wasn't central to the PRO (Pro Party), to the point that when I wanted to run against the Radicals, my own party asked me to withdraw. We showed that we could win that internal race against a century-old party.

-What is your relationship with Mauricio Macri?

My relationship with Mauricio is more sincere and more frank than ever. I speak from a different place. There are no constraints on decision-making, although I never had them. There are words of advice, in good faith, and also consultations. We talk at least once a week. It's a good relationship, because we can tell each other when we disagree on an issue and respect those differences as we always have. There's no room, on either side, for gratuitously throwing flowers at each other.

-Is PRO a Macri-led party today? Or is there room for different nuances within its structure?

I believe a front-oriented space is coming, in which the PRO will be a part. We achieved it in Chubut; we are a cross-party front, which includes Radicalism, the PRO, and even a sector of Peronism. That will be reflected nationally. For example, I think someone with a profile like (Juan) Schiaretti will be part of a federal and republican front. That's what motivates and excites me as an alternative at the national level. Argentina needs that kind of front to strengthen its institutions.

-Doesn't the idea of ​​strong institutions go against Milei's government?

The government is confined to a mission, which isn't a bad thing. It's a pre-ideological discussion, not liberal-libertarian in economic matters, but rather a basic, common-sense one, where the same thing is proposed as Chile, which is a socialist government: fiscal balance, a floating exchange rate, and moving toward normalcy. In that discussion, we have more in common with the government than differences. Where do the differences arise? From now on, when we talk about how to add value to our resources, how to be a competitive country without that implying a destruction of jobs nationwide.

-In the idea of ​​promoting a front, are there limits on who you can negotiate with?

-Yes, there are limits because in Argentina, anything that isn't clear or concise is fake and won't convince anyone. That's why when I talk about a front, I'm not talking about crowding together, but about building a republican and federal space by demonstrating leadership. Crowding for the sake of crowding together is useless.

-Wasn't that the failed experience of Together for Change?

-Together for Change was clear, but it also suffered from crowding. There's one thing we have to be self-critical about: we've had officials within the Ministry of Economy with completely opposing views within our administration. That happened, and it was clearly a mistake, one that shouldn't be made. The "middle avenue" coalition is over in Argentina. It's not what the country needs. We need a leadership renewal hand in hand with a national project. These centrist coalitions seek to crowd leaders together to see how many representatives they can get. That's why I don't believe in the PRO coalition with La Libertad Avanza.

-Because of core differences. If there's no common parliamentary agenda, it makes no sense. We agree and support each other on many things, but not on others. If we disagree, for example, on the need for a serious infrastructure plan, on the concept of what the obligations of a national state should consider, or on the methods..., why are you joining together? It doesn't make sense. It's complacent to do so, it's mediocre. That's my position, but I know it's not the position of the entire party. I believe there must first be an internal purge within the PRO, and whoever wants to leave has the right to do so without an inquisition. But we shouldn't fake a front in which we have no stake.

-If it doesn't close with La Libertad Avanza, can't the PRO become a very minority space?

-What's the point of protecting the victors if you betray yourself? The only thing that remains in a politician's career is consistency. In politics, it's unforgivable to betray oneself and the electorate.

Did the relationship between the governors and the government break down after the bill demanding more funding was introduced?

-If we go back a few months, the government announced a sweeping tax reform, to which the provinces are bound. A host of clichés emerge from this, which are systematically repeated and need to be debunked, such as that the fiscal burden is heavier due to provincial taxes than national taxes. That's a lie. We, in Chubut, contribute more than double our share to that phantasm that is the Nation, which spends but doesn't generate revenue, and we receive less than 40% of what we generate. It's a distorting matrix that suffocates the Argentina that produces. In response to this announcement from the national government, we at the CFI propose having this discussion, but responsibly. No one talks about addressing an issue that fears it will impact the national coffers. What we propose is the same thing the government said not so long ago: "We must put an end to the trust fund schemes." We propose that. That's why there's no conceptual conflict. It's very difficult for the government to say "the provinces want to undermine fiscal balance." It's not the nation's money, it's for roads, or for the provinces.

-Don't you think that if the dialogue with the government becomes more tense, that might be a possible approach?

I believe there was a gesture on the part of the government, which was to reactivate the famous May Pact, where there is a common table to move forward on issues such as tax, pension, and labor reform. I believe the government has a reformist vocation, but not all reforms have to be in favor of the nation.

What do you think of Milei's constant confrontational approach to politicians, journalists, and artists?

-To downplay the imprint the President's behavior creates on those who don't think like him is, I think, more foolish than dangerous. It often encourages mockery, racist, homophobic, scatological, and vulgar comments. I don't like that. Firmness is demonstrated by actions, and the loudest voice isn't necessarily right. I have a lot of respect for Milei, who is clear-eyed; when he fights, he does it head-on, and that makes any rival worthy of it. Those who celebrate him and amplify the other side don't realize the damage they're doing. That's not part of the cultural battle; it's backward, it's disrespectful. Milei's arguments with Lali Espósito or with (Ricardo) Darín over the price of empanadas are pointless. There are other, more important discussions.

-With Cristina Kirchner in prison, will the political landscape change?

-The fact of depersonalizing the discussions is, for me, favorable. We can discuss the future without resorting to the same old names. Discussing Cristina's legal situation takes the focus off discussions about the future. There wasn't a popular uprising like some said there would be. In that, the national government falls into the trap of opening wounds from the past, with the 1970s fetish. Those of us who are children of democracy believe there are other discussions to be had. We in Chubut, for example, are waging a very strong fight against judicial corporatism, and that's why we're proposing the elimination of immunity.

How much time do you dedicate to the local campaign?

-Nothing for now. I think from now on there will be a stronger electoral climate. We are working on the Despierta Chubut front, which led us to win the governorship.

Does this election define something very important? Could it complicate governability at the provincial level?

-All elections are important and must be fought head-on. Some might say it's an uncomfortable election, that it could become too nationalized... Today, we're contesting two national seats in Chubut; we're not contesting senators, so from a parliamentary perspective, it doesn't have the weight of the previous election. But it helps us sustain this construction, which we want to maintain, that transcends Nacho Torres, and that has to do with continuing to sustain a provincial brand from these foundations that took a lot of effort to build after 20 years of neglect in the management of the province.

How much time do you have to devote to the national situation?

-The boundaries between national and provincial politics are difficult to draw. One influences the other. The provinces must be involved in the discussion because they are binding. Chubut is the fourth largest exporting province in the country. How can we not be involved in national discussions?

-Do you have a medium-term or long-term career plan?

I really enjoy managing, seeing tangible results in my province, and I want to continue sustaining that transformation in the coming years. I imagine leaving the governorship tomorrow and being able to walk with my head held high, hand in hand with my son, proud of the management we did in Chubut. I've been undergoing psychoanalysis for seven years; I don't have any ego problems or any ambition beyond aiming for a lasting change in Chubut. It won't be possible to achieve it in two or four years. Two administrations are necessary to fully consolidate it.

When he won the gubernatorial election in Chubut in July 2023, Ignacio Torres was just 35 years old, an age at which many young people begin to work in intermediate positions in their respective jobs.

Today, two years later, at 37, he remains by far the youngest provincial leader in the country, a fact that, he says, neither works for nor against him when it comes to managing. "Politics naturally has an aversion to youth, especially from the more traditional parties," explains the man who recalls a certain hostility in the treatment he received for being young when he served as a national senator from 2021 to 2023.

"It happened to me a lot in the Senate, unlike in the House of Representatives. I'd walk in the main door and they'd say, 'Hey, kid, it's on the other side.' I always had to break down those prejudices about inexperience or youth; I had to prove myself better than someone who was older," he says.

At the provincial level, Torres recalls that during the campaign against him in the last election, "they attacked me because I didn't have children, as if it were a virtue or a defect in governing." From a distance, he maintains that "what gives you political muscle are results. You can have whatever you have, but without results, you'll get by without much fanfare."

In addition to having a decade of experience in various strategic political positions, Torres will add another item to his CV: he will become a father next month, for the first time, with his partner Ornella, whom he met 12 years ago.

He speaks cautiously about his impending fatherhood. "There's still a month until Victorio is born. Last year we lost a baby, and in the daily grind and because of my exposure in Chubut, it was difficult."

And he describes, from a distance, what it meant to overcome that situation: "We went through that moment, which was difficult, and we lived it calmly, in privacy. It's essential to sustain that, beyond the problems and the daily whirlwind. Otherwise, you'll go crazy. I would be a bad governor if I couldn't dedicate the necessary time to my loved ones," he reflects.

Ignacio Agustín Torres was born on May 4, 1988, in Trelew. He graduated with a degree in Business Administration from UADE in 2013, and has been a member of the PRO party since his student days. In 2015, he took over the Pensar en Chubut Foundation, a local think tank for the party he chaired until 2020. Previously, in 2017, during Mauricio Macri's administration, he joined the board of directors of PAMI representing Chubut, and was also part of the Patagonian Development Roundtable formed by then-Interior Minister Rogelio Frigerio. In 2019, he became a national deputy, obtaining 32.3% of the votes on a list that finished second. His breakthrough in politics came in 2021, when he led a list in the legislative elections that obtained 38% of the votes, ten points more than the Peronist candidate, and became a national senator. Bolstered by that performance, he ran for governor in 2023, and on July 30 of that year, he was elected governor of the province—the youngest in history, at 35 years old—after winning a very close election by 1.5 percentage points over his rival, Justicialist Juan Pablo Luque. He has been the governor of Chubut for 18 months.

One challenge: Two. To be remembered as a great governor and to be a good father.

A dream: I fulfilled my two dreams: to be governor of my province and to start a family.

A project: To be part of building a republican and federal alternative in Argentina.

A book: The day Nietzsche cried.

A movie: As if it were the first time.

A Chubut pinot noir.

A hero: José de San Martín.

A leader: Angel "Chacho" Peñaloza.

A pleasure: Having breakfast with my partner, early in the morning.

A childhood memory: The first family trip to Brazil.

A society I admire: The Chubut society.